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Post by Someblokecalledave on Aug 24, 2012 18:09:03 GMT -5
Everything about the basic back-spinning Flipper - Questions, comments, explanations, techniques, issues - post them all here.
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Post by Someblokecalledave on Aug 24, 2012 19:01:04 GMT -5
Here's one of my own videos with my take on the basic version of the Flipper - the back-spinning one as demo'd by Warne on Youtube
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Post by shivam on Oct 18, 2012 0:00:01 GMT -5
while bowling the flipper should we put more revs to it or with a big flick
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Post by leftie600 on Oct 19, 2012 4:58:59 GMT -5
I guess I'll put my cards out there early as my flipper's not much to talk about.
Personally I believe a flipper is effective because of what it looks like and what it doesn't do:
1. The wrist position for a flipper should be the same as a leg break so before release a batsman shouldn't detect anything 2.The flipper doesn't have the topspin or sidespin of a legbreak, plus the backspin of the delivery means it drops slightly less than a slider which means a batsman perceives the delivery as being quicker when in reality it just isn't dipping like the what regular legspin deliveries do 3. It should be bowled sparingly and should be used like a boxer uses a knockout blow, if you bowl a flipper too often the batsman that survives it waits for it and rarely gets out to it (unlike other deliveries like the googly)
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Post by shivam on Oct 19, 2012 5:22:34 GMT -5
woo.. thanks leftie600, the flipper does dip rather float
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Post by leftie600 on Oct 19, 2012 22:14:41 GMT -5
No worries Shivam. Your flipper dips? That is unusual but it just means that 1 and 3 apply to your flipper and not 2. What I've noticed with batsmen that have got out to my flipper (which is usually bowled as a last resort!) is they: 1. See my wrist position and think a regular legspin delivery is about to be bowled 2. See that the delivery is going to pitch short which means it must be a long hop 3. Look in horror as they realise the ball hasn't bounced like the other deliveries and is now rocketing into their middle stump! Got a beauty like that last year, I removed my sweeper on the leg side, put in the flipper and BOOM! Hook, line and sinker
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Post by Someblokecalledave on Oct 20, 2012 8:26:03 GMT -5
The basic flipper with back-spin utilises the magnus effect www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3jnOIJg4k&feature=relmfuTherefore the back-spin works to keep the ball in the air longer and therefore dips less than expected and as someone previously mentioned if used sparingly can surprise the batsman. The only thing I find is that despite this potential surrpise element most good batsman recognise the balls flight as being similar to a normal seamers ball and dispatch the ball easily, I've found that it works better when bowled as a yorker amongst your deliveries and with less adept batsmen. The other thing with the flipper, is that in certain atmospherics the ball will swing. If Shivam is getting it to dip, I'd say that your doing something wrong with the Flipper shivam or you're bowling an over-spinning flipper, which is pretty damn hard to do. With regards how the spin is imparted it is generally done with the use of the thumb under the ball in the case of the back-spinner as per my video. This technique is years old and pre-dates Grimmett and is the technique used by many (If not all) of the under-arm lob bowlers. If the thumbs not used is an integral part of putting the spin on the ball it's probably not a flipper. Finger spinners have often said that the Flipper has a great many similarities to their technique, but that kind of needs a finger spinner who bowls both deliveries to shin some light on their experiences. Wrist flick and Flippers - there's potential for the wrist to be employed in some of the variations I reckon, but the one that I demo in the video is usually bowled with a rigid wrist.
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Post by shivam on Oct 20, 2012 8:34:12 GMT -5
i thought back spin or flipper will float
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Post by Someblokecalledave on Oct 20, 2012 10:08:31 GMT -5
Yeah float could be another description of the fact that the ball doesn't dip - e.g. it holds a very straight line through it's flight.
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Post by leftie600 on Oct 20, 2012 21:00:18 GMT -5
Have changed my original post, didn't realise I had put 'dipping' instead of 'dropping'.
Completely agree with what everyone else has posted.
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Post by graeme on Oct 21, 2012 19:29:00 GMT -5
I'm glad this thread has reactivated: Sean has been asking me how he can bowl a flipper. I've been reading up and watching videos (including yours Dave) and I think he's going to struggle with having a hand that is not fully grown yet. Additionally, I'm somewhat reluctant to have him working too hard on it while he still hasn't nailed down his stock ball, but I can't see much harm in him at least practicing the flipping action in the safety of the living room.
How do you get this to work when the bowler's hand isn't quite big enough to deal with a full size ball? Should he learn the flipping action with a junior ball or a tennis ball and move onto a normal ball later?
Cheers, Graeme
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Post by Someblokecalledave on Oct 22, 2012 16:21:40 GMT -5
A lot of people including Benuad and Liz Ward who's a Bio-mechanist/Physio and used to be on Bigcricket a lot, recommends that you shouldn't put too much work into bowling it because it puts a lot of strain on your tendons. If he's going to have a go at perfecting the technique - use a tennis ball or maybe something smaller and if he suffers any soreness or pain especially from the big chunky muscle at the base of the thumb and further up the arm I'd say stop. If you do it too much I think you can end up suffering permanent variations of Medial Epicondylitis which is painful.
During the phase when I tried all those variations out the Top-Spinning variation caused some problems and minor ME, but I stopped and let it settle before I went back to it. I think it's a case of any discomfort and pain give it a break. Another suggestion is to use even smaller balls and work up to the larger ones.
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Post by graeme on Oct 22, 2012 18:16:04 GMT -5
Thanks Dave. Sean will give the tennis balls a try.
Cheers, Graeme
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Post by Someblokecalledave on Oct 23, 2012 13:49:23 GMT -5
Yeah just work with it Peter Philpott style - have a tennis ball around and just flick it around every now and then and build up the flick bit by bit. To my wifes annoyance I've got balls all round the house which I just pick up and flick either with the flipper action or the conventional leg break action. Our kitchen's got an angled ceiling and I had to paint all the red scuff marks off it where I do it in there at the lower end!!
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Post by billywhizz on Oct 23, 2012 17:28:40 GMT -5
I know what you mean about the red marks on the ceiling. I hit the wife on the back of the head with a wild flipper the other day, which didn't go down to well either.
I'm trying to work on my flipper this winter - seems to come out naturally as a sort of back spinning off break. At the moment can get it fairly accurate over 12 yards. I read that Grimmet was getting into turning flippers towards the of his career. Not sure what success he had with it though.
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