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Post by Someblokecalledave on Oct 27, 2012 11:46:35 GMT -5
Leg Spin bowling + grip
The real title should be wrist spin bowling - gripping the ball, but in order to capture the biggest audience I've gone for the more well known title.
Anyway that aside... How do we all grip the ball? Philpott for instance says to not get too hung up on how you do it and that to do it in an unorthodox manners isn't that much of an issue, just as long as you get the ball to break off the wicket - which means you're obviously spinning it hard.
I've got different approaches dependent on what deliveries I bowl. My Leg Break method would be along the lines of how Warne generally recommends how it should be done... 2 fingers up - 2 fingers down and nestles in the hand with a relatively loose grip. But, lots of people grip it hard.
If I'm bowling Top-Spinners I go for a different approach which is far more 'Fingery' with the thumb playing more of a role. I noticed though that by rotating the wrist a little using the 'Fingery' approach I can also produce a half decent Leg Break. Anyone out there bowl with a flick that they might describe as being 'Fingery'?
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tcs
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Post by tcs on Oct 31, 2012 8:12:20 GMT -5
Sometimes it the size of the hand that dictates your grip. I have a small hand, and tend to use my wrist more than the finger. I wish I had long fingers so I can grip better and have longer contact with my third finger during delivery.
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Post by Someblokecalledave on Oct 31, 2012 9:23:43 GMT -5
I'm 5'10" a couple of inches shorter than Warne, my hands are not big, probably average sized and not thick and chunky like Warnes hands. Whether that makes a difference or not I'm not sure? But, like you I reckon larger hands would make a difference. I'm still quite surprised that no-one has ever zoomed in on Warnes hands when he bowls using a high-speed camera. They only ever do it as an enlarged section from the overall bowling action/delivery and then it's subject to pixelation or grain from being enlarged. Similarly no-one seems to have ever got their act together to film anyone that bowls wrist spin well - using a high speed camera in order to demo the deliveries as a part of a coaching video or similar? But, again this just may be another example of how obscure this speciality is and that perhaps there's no call for such a thing?
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tonym
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Post by tonym on Oct 31, 2012 18:14:43 GMT -5
Dave, I understand where you are coming from with the slo-mo video but aside from the obscure nature of the audience, I would also question its value.
Just think of the contributors on here and BC, everyone has their own querks to get the ball doing something down the other end. Its a bit like the discussion on Warne's delivery stride, an interesting talking point but if it doesnt work for you then there is no value in copying it, but because its 'Warnie' then people will still try, often ignoring the other things that went into him being the unique bowler he was/is. This becomes magnified when looking at something as critical as fingers/wrist for leggies and the less players think about and the more they feel their action the better for me.
So, not saying there isn't value in having the fottage available, but I just worry about how it would be used, particularly over the web.
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Post by Someblokecalledave on Nov 1, 2012 5:50:03 GMT -5
Tony - yeah I agree, but it would definitely be interesting to see, the little bits and pieces of video that are available shot using poor quality footage and peculiar angles are intriuging and not very useful. But, yeah you're right it could easily muddy the water still further, but I'd love to be able to see how the wrist flicks and how much Warne for instance flicks with the fingers or whether there's an element of rolling. The technology is out there to do it, I'm baffled that it's not been used - but I've kind of explained that myself in that it's just so obscure and may have no value as a training/coaching aid.
But - why can some people with seemingly unorthodox actions who when asked 'How do you spin the ball' they shrug their shoulders and say 'Uh - I dunno... I just do'. Then spin the ball massively - my under-study Frank for instance!!!
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Post by Someblokecalledave on Nov 1, 2012 7:30:30 GMT -5
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Post by leftie600 on Nov 1, 2012 18:48:30 GMT -5
Just to mess with you Dave, I would call my grip:
1 up (Index finger), 3 down, thumb on the ball
From there I can go round the loop and bowl an OBS and a slider with ease.
The biggest spinning leg breaks I have seen came from a Warne grip and the guy also managed to get the same injuries as Warne, which unfortunately put him out of the game.
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Post by Someblokecalledave on Nov 2, 2012 20:13:45 GMT -5
Exactly! See, I'd love to see you doing that in ultra slow-motion, that'd be amazing - especially the OBS. I've probably said it before, but the only relatively clear footage I've ever seen of anyone bowling the OBS is of Jenner in a training video!
With the other bloke with the Warne grip/action - what happened with him - what part of his body broke down?
With my own bowling action - I'm starting to bowl a bit at the moment with my older son (He seems to be up for it at the moment, so I'm taking advantage of the situation and he can do with the batting experience) and the 'Fingery' action seems to be working okay and coming along fine. Hopefully a solution to my arm/shoulder situation?
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Post by leftie600 on Nov 2, 2012 22:11:24 GMT -5
If I remember rightly it was his shoulder.
When his legbreak came out you could literally hear it fizz through the air and his regular delivery got huge drift, dip and spin like a young Warne. He occasionally was used as a net bowler by Canterbury as his big spinning deliveries were something even the bowling machines couldn't fire out. Unfortunately, like Warne, he's a loose cannon and that led to him not making the most of his ability due to him not having the resources behind him to help him develop, great guy to have a drink with though.
I'll see if I can get some suitably embarrassing footage of me bowling my repertoire, unfortunately work's keeping me away from the practices at the moment so it'll be a while.
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Post by Someblokecalledave on Nov 3, 2012 5:43:51 GMT -5
How old was the bloke? I always think of Grimmett when you hear these stories of people giving up relatively early. Grimmett was still bowling in his 80's and when Ashley Mallett met him in conjunction with his book he wasn't young either - maybe even in his 80's then? There's an obvious factor of different bodies - different sell by dates and I look to my old man who died at 65, he was good, well into his early 60's and then just fell apart. But, his diet was awful, he was an alcoholic and worked hard all his life, so maybe I'll get an extention - fingers crossed. I'd be happy with another 5 years!
This new grip though seems to be the solution to my problem, but the whole grip thing has always baffled me and stories of your bloke getting the ball to fizz and drift with ease just makes me realise that realistically I'm a very mediocre wrist spinner! I've come to it far too late in life, but I'd love to be able to make sense of it enough to be able encourage kids and anyone else to develop their bowling and stick to the art.
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Post by leftie600 on Nov 3, 2012 17:32:09 GMT -5
I stopped being depressed with my grip when I bowled a couple of left handers around their legs with wrong'uns, I'm pretty sure Warne hasn't done that too often! The guy would have been mid-20's when his shoulder went but you have to consider the sheer force he was putting on the ball, without appropriate physical training something bad was always going to happen. Glad I got to play in the same team as him a couple of times, great fun bowling in tandem with him; he had his Warne leg breaks and I would change my method to be more Mushtaq Ahmed, the batsmen had nowhere to hide  |
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Post by Someblokecalledave on Nov 4, 2012 6:43:06 GMT -5
Yeah, that's great when you get to bowl with another spinner at the other end. The first team I ever played for was captained by a spinner and in some games we fielded 5 spinners, so quite often we'd bowl in tandem. I used to bowl with a bloke called 'The Wizard' - Alex McClellan, another wrist spinner, he used to spin it hard with less accuracy than me, but I spun it less with increased accuracy and that used to work well.
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